Green’s Dictionary of Slang

to know nothing whatsoever.

1976

J. Heller Good As Gold (1979) 432: I told him he didn’t know a sparrow’s shit about cowboys.

to be totally ignorant of.

1878		Freeman’s Jrnl (Sydney) 11 May 14/: Europeans didn’t know B from a bar of soap.
1891		Ballarat Star (Vic.) 25 Dec. 4/6: [of a racehorse] At the time I did not know Hollowback from a ... bar of soap.
1897		Taranaki Herald (NZ) 10 Dec. 2/4: ‘Well, I don’t know you from a bar of soap and you don’t get in’.
1901		Sydney Stock and Station Jnl (NSW) 10 Sept. 8/5: I may not know you ‘from a bar of soap,’ but I like your style.
1910		Age (Melbourne) 6 Apr. 12/1: ‘They might not know Ronald from a bar of soap’ [...] ‘You get the witnesses and I’ll tutor them up’.
1922		Cowra Free Press (NSW) 14 Jan. 6/3: ‘I don’t know you at all. I don’t know you from a bar of soap’.
1930		Narromine News (NSW) 21 Feb. 8/4: ‘No, mate [...] I never seen your name on jam tins. I don’t know you from a bar of soap’.
1941		Gundagai Indep. (NSW) 17 July 2/5: ‘Goodbye, Bob. These — coppers don’t know me from a — bar of soap. I’ll see you at — church!’.
1956		Cosmopolitan (US) 142 87/2: Some guy he didn’t know from a bar of soap.
1960		R. Jeffries Counsel for the Defence 18: Mr Thomas, whom I don’t know from a bar of soap.
1963		A.B. Chandler Ship from Outside n.p.: [A] brand new Chief Officer whom I wouldn’t know from a bar of soap.
1967		J. Wynnum I’m a Jack, All Right 66: You don’t know ’em from a bar of soap.
1986		B. Gustafson Cradle to the Grave 72: Faulkner, whom Savage [...] didn’t know ‘from a bar of soap’.
1991		South Africa’s Intelligence Services 11/1: 63 people, some of whom I did not know froma bar of soap.
1995		I. Moores Voices of Aboriginal Aus. 414: They arranged a marriage to somebody I didn’t know from a bar of soap.
2002		P. Mares Borderline 46: [T]hese people who I donlt know from a bar of soap.
2003		McGill Reed Dict. of N.Z. Sl.
2015		R. Young O’Malley’s Irish Pub 56: [T]he landlord didn’t know me from a bar of soap.

to be in a state of confusion.

1996		T. Pratchett Hogfather (1997) 62: It got so’s you didn’t know it was bum or breakfast time.
2008		T. Pratchett Going Postal [ebook] ‘Lads come down [...] with their eyes spinning and their hands shaking and no idea if it’s bum or breakfast time’.

(Aus. / S.Afr.) to be in a state of confusion.

2003		K. Cage Gayle.
2005		R.T. Stone Journals Book 2 463: Colin wouldn’t know Christmas from Bourke Street, but he’s a got a donger the size of a dijeridu.
2017		J.W. Falbey Dogs of War [ebook] That little bloke there [...] doesn’t seem to know Christmas from Bourke Street. But [...] he’s always got a full quid’.

to be in a state of confusion.

1918

E. Packe letter 8 Jan. 🌐 A piece of ice caught me a devil of a welt on the head and for a moment I didn’t know if it was Piccadilly or Wednesday.

(Aus.) to be in a state of confusion.

1992		Sydney Morn. Herald 7 June 35: [O]ne of those drongos who are mad as a gumtree full of galahs and don’t know if it's Pitt Street or Christmas.
2000		B. Malcolm Farm Managemnt Econ. Analysis 35: Whether this has mainly come about from consultants confused about whether it is Tuesday or Bourke Street (Victoria; Pitt Street or Christmas, NSW), or illywhackers running slanters, does not much matter.
2008		https://www.picturesofengland.com 🌐 Doesn’t know if it's Pitt street or Christmas. to be confused (a country bloke confused at all the lights of Sydney's Pitt Street).
2014		https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au 23 Dec. 🌐 [T]he description of someone who, let’s say, struggles with the complexities of life: ‘He wouldn’t know if it was Pitt Street or Christmas’.

1. to be confused, usu. as to one’s aims and intentions.

1941		Inverell Times (NSW) 16 May 3/2: [B]ackers and bookies won't know if they are on Arthur or Martha.
1943		Dly Mirror (Sydney) 7 Sept. 6/2: Bombers dropped their loads on Lae until the Japs didn't know whether they were Arthur ... or Martha.
1957		D. Niland Call Me When the Cross Turns Over (1958) 52: You chuck it up and you’re right as pie till you eat again. And so it goes on. You don’t know if you’re Arthur or Martha.
1986		C. Bowles G’DAY 98: A bloke who doesn’t know what he’s about doesn’t know if he’s Arthur or Martha.
1999		G. Seal The Lingo 92: Rhyming slang is not the only area in which rhyme is worked to good effect. A number of other common terms use this device, including: arthur or martha (didn’t know if they were arthur or martha) meaning confused.
2000		Guardian 8 Sept. 16: Half the time she’s trying to break monopolies [...] the other half she’s trying to award the juiciest monopoly of them all. Poor old thing, no wonder she doesn’t know whether she’s Arthur or Martha.
2003		McGill Reed Dict. of N.Z. Sl.
2023		J.M. Butterfield on X 5 Dec. 🌐 Sometimes I don't know if I'm Arthur or Martha as I toggle between English, Danish, Spanish, German and Russian keyboards.

2. of a man, to be ambivalent about one’s own sexuality.

[1952		Blackwood-Warren Sentinel (Bridgetown, WA) 23 Oct. 7/3: Just over seven hundred adults and children attended the Children’s Fancy Dress Ball [...] Senior Section most original costume, ‘Arthur or Martha,’ Maureen Rooke].
1980		Maledicta IV:2 (Winter) 232: ‘He doesn’t know if he’s Arthur or Martha’ or ‘Angus or Agnes’.
1986–7		Maledicta IX 195: This article and series devoted to sexual slang would be incomplete without some notice of catch phrases, both British and American: [...] he doesn’t know if he’s Arthur or Martha (butch or femme).

3. a phr. used after swimming, to describe a man whose genitals have shrunk dramatically on contact with the cold water.

1980

Maledicta IV:2 (Winter) 195: After swimming, one may still hear the expression I’m so cold I don’t know if I’m Agnes or Angus (or Arthur or Martha, as they put it in Australia).

see under not know if one’s arsehole is bored or punched under arsehole n.

see under arsehole n.

see not know one’s arse/ass from... under arse n.

(US) to be very stupid.

1947		C. Willingham End as a Man (1952) 193: You don’t know your butt from a bear’s ass.
1977		Maledicta 1 (Summer) 13: Other rural phrases adding up to the same thing include the accusation that one doesn’t know his butt from a gourd, or don’t know frog-shit from pea-soup.

(N.Z.) to be mentally unstable; to be ignorant.

2003

McGill Reed Dict. of N.Z. Sl.

1. to not have any idea about a topic.

1945		H.S. Truman q. in LRB 6. Dec. 2018 [online] He made a point of purging some of Roosevelt’s most trusted advisers, firing Henry Morgenthau (‘didn’t know shit from apple butter’).
1952		(con. 1948) G. Mandel Flee the Angry Strangers 177: Those replacement kids scuffin about out there [...] not knowin shit from good apple butter.
1970		E. Thompson Garden of Sand (1981) 105: You don’t know shit from beans.
1972		D. Jenkins Semi-Tough 197: [He] had to be one of those Eastern, lockjaw motherfuckers who wouldn’t know shit from tunafish.
1980		Barltrop & Wolveridge Muvver Tongue 41: Someone abysmally ignorant ‘doesn’t know shit from clay’.
1988		McGill Dict. of Kiwi Sl. 125/2: wouldn’t know shit from clay naive or stupid persons.
1989		H. Rawson Dict. of Invective (1991) 342: doesn’t know beans; doesn’t know dung from honey.
1993		(con. 1969) N.L. Russell Suicide Charlie 66: Same-same didn’t know shit from a salami and I didn’t care what he thought.
2003		McGill Reed Dict. of N.Z. Sl. 234: wouldn’t know shit from clay — unless you tasted it Severely limited person.
2011		(con. WWII) L. Summers Never Anticipate the Command 95: Sergeant Horton [...] screamed and hollered [...] ‘You don’t know shit from beans, you don't know your ass from a hole.” Over and over again, he would berate us.
2013		(con. 1955) Vanderberg & Lane Frantic Frank Lane 57: Chuck Comiskey [...] didn’t know shit from apple butter.

2. to be particularly wrong in an opinion.

1996

(con. 1946) G. Pelecanos Big Blowdown (1999) 53: Those guys don’t know shit from apple butter.

1. (also not know shit from shine, ...toothpaste) to not have any idea about a topic; thus know shit from Shinola, to be aware, to be knowledgeable; turn shit into Shinola, to make an improvement.

[1947		H.A. Smith cited in Lo, the Former Egyptian text unavailable].
1958		R.F. Levin Three Stories 41: ‘[W]hen it comes to some things, you don’t know shit from shinola’.
1963		in T.I. Rubin Sweet Daddy 63: Take most these babes [...] they don’t know shit from shinola.
1974		(con. 1945) E. Thompson Tattoo (1977) 344: They don’t know shit from Shinola when it comes to all us who worked like niggers all our lives.
1976		R. Price Blood Brothers 156: Shouting at her that she was a dumb cunt and didn’t know shit from Shinola.
1976		N. Thornburg Cutter and Bone (2001) 263: That do sound like Mister Humperdinck don’t know cattle from Shinola.
1979		G. Wolff Duke of Deception (1990) 138: You’re still a pup, don’t know shit from shine about anything.
1981		H. Gould Fort Apache, The Bronx 233: You guys have been on this job ten, fifteen years, and you don’t know shit from shinola.
1986		L. Heinemann Paco’s Story (1987) 174: Some rear-rank slick-sleeve private (who doesn’t know dismounted, close-order drill from shit and Shinola).
1993		Observer 6 June 145/1: We received 90 scripts a week [...] at that level you get the garbage and have to turn the shit into shinola.
1994		T. Willocks Green River Rising 162: Some of his guys didn’t know shit from toothpaste.
1996		(con. 1949) G. Pelecanos Big Blowdown (1999) 160: Course, Costa, he don’t know shit from Shinola.
2001		(con. 1964–8) J. Ellroy Cold Six Thousand 513: The geek didn’t know. The geek knew shit from Shinola.
2001		Observer 2 Sept. 102/2: As Rolf Wolf used to say about the press, ‘They don’t know shit from Shinola’.

2. to be particularly wrong in an opinion; thus shit from Shinola n., nonsense, nothing, anythingnote euph. shin in cit. 1987.

1969		H. Searls Hero Ship 60: How’ll that look? The usual ‘shit from Shinola?’.
1974		J. Lahr Hot to Trot 8: Irene doesn’t know shit from Shinola. Why shouldn’t I go out to the old homestead?
1980		J.L. Gwaltney Drylongso 110: As long as they can get folks to say that shit is shinola, they would rather deal shit any day.
1987		‘Joe Bob Briggs’ Joe Bob Goes to the Drive-In 81: The alert reader — if any of you turkeys know a shin from Shinola.
2000		M. Manning Get Your Cock Out 13: The Northern skinhead knew his shit from his shinola.
2001		(con. 1975–6) E. Little Steel Toes 164: Make sure he knows better than to testify or say shit about Shinola.

(US) to be wholly ignorant.

2020

(con. 1991-94) W. Boyle City of Margins 193: ‘You don’t know shit from a hole in the ground’.

(US) not to know anything.

1898		Jack Thorp ‘Little Joe, the Wrangler’ in G. Logsdon Whorehouse Bells Were Ringing (1995) 35: He said if we would give him work he’d do the best he could, / Though he didn’t know straight up about a cow.
1931		W.R. Burnett Silver Eagle 16: ‘He’s a big chump,’ said Campi. ‘How he ever made all that dough I’ll never tell! He don’t know straight up’.
1952		W.R. Burnett Vanity Row 19: ‘He’s the kind who don’t know straight up. So he’s the Chief. So a guy’s got to have friends—pull’.

see under behind n.

see not know whether to shit or go blind under shit v.

(US) to be completely ignorant, deluded.

1963

in T.I. Rubin Sweet Daddy 22: Got to hear some of these cons talking about chicks. Poor bastards don’t know which side is up.